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OceanRat's avatar

Thanks for this wisdom-bomb

I find a recursive trap really hard to let go of. "Look at me participating in the world with all this humilty and stuff, I'm super cool"... (Mental self-reset to humility... 5 minutes pass) "Ooh look at me being self aware enough to notice that i was feeling smug and being so clever as to reset myself". I think I mostly conclude: yeah its gonna be like that. Whenever I'm not in flow state. For me the work is continuous and i need to be glad to do it. But not smug about doing it.

This isnt just me right 😜

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Unverified Revelations's avatar

CS Lewis talks about this. He says the solution is you just have to laugh.

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OceanRat's avatar

Thank you. Back to Mere Christianity I see well that's no bad thing... And its undoubtedly the wisest response alongside maybe a self-directed eyeroll!

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Ariana's avatar

Gracious of you to remind me that it’s about time for me to walk into my own pyre again.

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Thomas del Vasto's avatar

Beautiful, brilliant piece. I've often had frustrations with the watered down rationalist-friendly form of Buddhism that seems to have infected most in the West chasing some sort of spiritual growth. I think you've hit the nail on the head with the idea that Western Buddhism often feeds into egotism.

Another piece I find fascinating about much religious experience is that it seems to demand we personalize forces outside of ourselves, make them as real as other people. When it comes to the experience of Fuller, he didn't annihilate himself and feel pure nothingness and non-duality. He felt an archetypal Father figure come down and tell him what to do. Give him a set of rules for life.

When you accept the mainstream Buddhist (in the West) framework, you lose the ability to have that experience. You can no longer have God or a Messiah give you practical, real instructions for living better. As you say, your spiritual path becomes about you alone. The idea of beings greater than you don't exist.

I especially love that you pointed out how the scientific literature has gone wrong in exploring religion. I truly appreciate when people work to bind religion and the scientific mindset together, as I am convinced the gap between the two worldviews is the gigantic wound our world is still reeling from, on a noological level.

Anyway, keep up the great work. And if you ever need folks to proofread or bounce concepts around, would love to chat.

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Zippy's avatar

Please find an authentic version of Western Buddhism via these references:

http://beezone.com/latest/four_yanas_of_buddhism.html

An acknowledgement of its authenticity by the 16th Karmapa

http://www.adidaupclose.org/FLO/karmapa.html

Another endorsement

http://www.dabase.org/gnos-foreward.htm

His Lineage Tradition

http://www.adidam.in/forerunners.html

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Thomas del Vasto's avatar

"Who's Western Buddhism?"

Seriously though man, I've had tons of convos about this and nobody can point me to a specific "strain" of Buddhism that can claim authenticity. I mean perhaps Theravada?

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Unverified Revelations's avatar

What do you mean by "authenticity"?

I can think of a couple different criteria, none of them unproblematic.

1. Unbroken chain of transmission, back to the Buddha - lots of different sects and schools will have this.

2. Close adherence to the earliest recorded Buddhist canon - this would be like some kind of reconstructed "fundamentalist" Theravada, I am sure it exists.

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Thomas del Vasto's avatar

Yeah I mean you get into the same problem with Christianity lol. Claims to authority are tricky and vary from tradition to tradition.

Part of why the conversation around religion is so fraught. Some versions of Christianity resemble Buddhism more than other branches of their own religion, in many ways. Sigh.

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Unverified Revelations's avatar

The vinaya is not just the written monastic code but the chain of succession going back to the Buddha. In early Buddhism only monks were considered important. It would be the analogy to apostolic succession in Christianity. Islam also has it silsila. There's a similar thing in Rabbinic Judaism.

I don't know if any Buddhists have anything as radical as a "priesthood of all believers." Basically the authority goes to validly ordained monks afaik.

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Thomas del Vasto's avatar

Interesting! But as you say above unlike Christianity there are many different sects that have that succession correct?

Afaik in Christianity it's only Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and (some branches) of Lutheranism that can claim apostolic succession. Oh and probably the Coptics.

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Unverified Revelations's avatar

In practice, lots of Buddhist religious experience is of the "born again" variety. I originally wanted to provide an example to demonstrate this but I found "buddhist religious experience" as a search term was focused on metaphysical and scripturally based concepts, not folk/born again ones(I know these exist, I have read about them!). Eventually I gave up in order to publish the article, but if I had a bit more time and access to some decent academic databases, I am sure I could come up with some.

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Thomas del Vasto's avatar

It’s interesting that with the Internet so much information has proliferated, but it’s remarkably hard to find these meaningful little stories about experience of religion, or day to day life.

Anthropology with indigenous tribes has the same issue. There’s been tons of brilliant work done but most of it is locked in dusty university archives, being lost or going totally unused.

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Unverified Revelations's avatar

it seems to me to be fairly recently that all the major search engines became garbage. the seo arms race seems to have been decisively lost. unfortunately i don't have access to any academic databases at the moment

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Kaz's avatar

I enjoyed the writing very much! Helped elucidate many of my own feelings towards enlightenment and the profundity of the mundane. Also, I feel if we all could carry a bit of uncle Iroh with us the world would be a lot more content.

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